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 Post subject: Bergerode
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:49 pm 
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Every now and then the question of what Bergerode is or was crops up. Well it hasn't for a few weeks so I thought I'd raise it again as the Forum is so quiet at the moment. So apologies for the mini essay that follows.

The photo is part of Speeds 1610 map. (I admit a bit blurrred at the top 'cos I didn't want to take it off the wall.) I don't know if Speed ever visited the area, if he sent out surveyors or if he copied this from earlier maps. Spelling in 1610 certainly wasn't standardised and place names were recorded as they were pronounced by locals. Allowing for mishearing and misunderstanding you can see 'Poton' for Poulton and even 'Garstrang'. Greenhalgh is 'Greenoo' and 'Prece Hall' (Preesall) is a few miles out of place. But Speed is consistent in how the map is labelled and always shows names of places horizontally but names of rivers (e.g. Wyre Flud and Skippon Flu [Skippool Creek] - 'flu' is short for Latin 'flumen' - river) always are written below and along the line of the feature. As you can see 'Bergerode' also follows below the line of the Wyre estuary. The symbol to the left belongs to 'Rosso Hall' (Rossall) double 's' being shown like the German 'scharfes s'.

So Bergerode is the water feature. The name could mean the 'rad' riding (i.e. roadstead where ships ride at anchor) of the 'burg' (fort/town) maybe suggesting there was a defended settlement nearby (Bourne Hill?) or riding of the hill 'beorg' (Bourne Hill?). I'd go for the former as the genetive (possessive) case of 'burg' is in fact 'burge' so it might have sounded a bit like 'burhyeraad'. ('g' originally would have been pronounced almost like 'h' at the end of a word but would be a bit more like a hard 'g' if followed by 'e',later becoming the modern 'je' sound.)

The clincher: if Bergerode is an English or Scandinavian (i.e. germanic) word and the 'rode' bit meant 'red' it would precede the noun 'berge' as it does in red cliff (Rawcliffe). In British/Welsh (and French in the case of colours) the adjective would follow the noun. But the Welsh for 'red' is 'coch/goch' (Llanfairpwllg...ogogoGOCH - last 3 syllables mean red cave) and the French is 'rouge' (Baton Rouge - Red Stick).

It's worth noting however that in this small area we have place names of different origin: Prece (Prees..), Trales (Treales) and Inkeskip (Inskip) are British/Welsh (Prys - brushwood, Treflys - farm/township of the court, Ynys - island). The various 'tons' (farm/settlement) are English and the 'bricks' (slope/hill) are Norwegian. Elswick (Ilswick) is interesting as 'wic' is a Latin loan word from 'vicus' (pronounced 'wicus'). It means farm - usually dairy farm, in this case of someone called Ethelsige - or it did come to mean village. But it's an early loan word so does that suggest it was borrowed by early Anglo-Saxon settlers from a Romano-British farm or settlement in the area? Otherwise would it not have been Elston?

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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:58 pm 
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Dave,

If you take into account the Wyre accent, the Bergerode becomes 'Bugger Old', which just about sums up Wyre Borough Council's attitude to the entire area of Bourne at the moment where its masses of history are about to be swamped beneath the unstoppable flood of new redevelopment.

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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:13 pm 
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We'll have to think up a campaign.

By the way, in my essay I mistook Preese Hall (Prece Hall) west of Greenhalgh for Preesall in Over Wyre which Speed has as 'Prisool' but in the right place.
Both still British/Welsh.

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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Location: just outside the fort
Dave,
Interesting to note that although Myerscoe, as we say it round here, is spelled on the map as it is today, Greenoo, as we pronounce it, must have been the same then for it to be written like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:02 am 
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Location: Preston
Frank,

You're right - it shows how pronunciation can hang on for centuries. Although I have heard it pronounced 'coff' presumably this by 'incomers' in more recent times. It's 'coe' because it's from Norse 'skogr' -wood. 'Myrr' is also Norse meaning boggy.

But rather strangely Speed has 'Grenholgh Cast(le)' (just off the picture). Eckwall gives Greenhalgh as pronounced 'grena' with a long 'e' (as an incomer I'd have said 'Greenhalsh')and shows it recorded in DB as' Greneholf' and in 1212 as 'Grenehole'. The second element is Old English 'holh' - hollow.

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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:40 pm 
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DaveH,
Just a few thoughts about “Bergerode” and Speed’s map of 1610. As the map is largely based on Saxton’s map of 1577, it ought to be established whether such place names are written in the same form on this earlier map. As far as I can tell from the fairly poor reproductions I can find, they are.
Your point about Bergerode following the line of the Wyre, as all the other rivers on the map do, is quite convincing. However, the difference seems to be that all other such names are appended by “fl.” or “flud,” etc. Also, each of the names of towns and villages is against a small representation of a settlement. Bergerode seems to be alone in that there is nothing to indicate what it represents.
The closest name to Bergerode on the maps of Saxton and Speed is perhaps “Blackerode” – now the town of Blackrod. According to Eckwall this means “Black clearing,” from the O.E. “rod,” a clearing. Using Eckwall’s list of elements found in Lancashire place-names, “Bergerode” would, on the face of it, mean “hill clearing.”
You are obviously more knowledgeable about etymology than I am, and no doubt the subject has advance significantly since Eckwall’s day, but I have the feeling that there is still a lot of guesswork involved.


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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:22 am 
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Okay...here's Saxton's map...or the relevant detail of, at any rate.

Image

It's interesting to note, perhaps, that on Saxton's map the Bergerode ends close to Thornton Hall (at the top of Woodhouse Road, Little Thornton), whereas on Speed's map it falls quite a distance short. This suggests that the placement of the first letter is more significant than the last. However, a quick comparison shows that the first letter of Bergerode also seems to fall in a different place, on Speed north of Rossall Hall, on Saxton, well to the south.

There's also the problem as to exactly what the 'sticky-out' bit on the riverbank actually is. Is it the Neb of Burn Naze, or is it Stanah Hill? If it's the neb, then there's possibly some connection between Bergerode and Burglar's Lane/Alley. To be honest, all matters considered, the name seems simply to be refering to the stretch of riverbank between Little Thornton and Fleetwood, which is why it's been so casually placed. Exactly why the west bank of the Wyre would be called the Bergerode, I haven't got a clue, unless, like Burglar's Alley it simply means 'The burg road', and refers to the ancient route running over Stanah Hill and heading off up the peninsula to Bourne Hill.

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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Intriguingly, searching “Bergerode” on Google and Google Earth brings up several places on the Continent – two or three in the Netherlands, one in Germany and one in Sweden (Bergeröd).
One in Holland is very close to a river and the one in Sweden is close to what seems to be a lake.


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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:19 pm 
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Location: Preston
Fyldecoaster,


You'r eabsolutely right about guesswork. Without a very old version of a name this is what it boils down to - using topographical clues. I don't think Bergerode is the name of the river at this point so it wouldn't be followed by 'fl' or ''flud'. I don't agree that it's casually placed but think it's fairly obvious that it is related to the shape of the river. 'Clearing' did occur to me but I'm not sure that this part of the Fylde was heavily wooded but, if it had been, why would a clearing in this out of the way place merit a label when no where else does.

I must admit I didn't find Bergerode when last I googled a while ago but now there are, as you say a few references. I like this one from a Netherlands site (Community Activities for Senior Citizens of Bergerode)

“Wij staan op met Bergerode en gaan naar bed met Bergerode. Zo veel is er hier te doen”, lacht Cor. ('We get up with Begerode and go to bed with Bergerode. There's so much to do here', laughs Cor). From this Bergerode is either a place or a centre of activity. On Google Earth there are a number of 'Bergerode B.V.' which I think stands for Begerode Bewoners Vereniging (Bergergode Inhabitants/Residents Union) so I think Bergerode here is an organisation maybe a rest home not a place? The Swedish one appears to be 'Bergerud' and I couldnt see any signs of buildings on Google Earth.

But strangely Wikipedia has: 'The area around Burn Naze on the western side of the Wyre Estuary was formerly known as Bergerode, believed to be an Old English term for "shallow harbour", beor grade.' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Wyre). This seems to back up my theory that the term is applied to the river (but based on a different etymology unless there is a misunderstanding of beorg (hill) rade (harbour).

AND in modern (well in 1960s) German a 'Bergler' is a mountain / hill dweller. So is it possible that Burglar's lane was once Berglers (or beorgleres) lane (i.e. lane of those living on the hill)? This closely ties in with your suggestion of 'the burg road' and would support the contention that Bergerode is 'sheltered harbour by the hill'. A 'beorg' was usually a rounded hill (just like Bourne) and also the verb 'beorgan' meant 'save/protect'.


Is there no Old English specialist out there?

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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:48 pm 
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As a long time "lurker", I've not felt that I needed to add to the knowledgeable comments that appear in this forum. Until today when I cam across an article in the Preston Guardian for 23rd February, 1856. In that article the author implies that Bergorade means "the tower protecting the naval station." Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Hi David. Thanks for that. I don't suppose you know who the author of the piece was and what language he believed the word originated from, do you?

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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:53 pm 
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It looks as if David has found a previously unknown (at least to me) paper by William Thornber about the Danes’ Pad and Portus Setantiorum. It can be viewed on Lancashire County Library Services Infotrac website (Gale). I couldn’t find it searching “Bergerode,” although it is there, but found it using “Fylde” instead.
The article is long and seems to be quite rambling. It was delivered 5 years later than a paper on the same subject read by Thornber to the Historic Society of Lancs. & Ches. Perhaps by this time his eccentricities were becoming more apparent (He died in a mental hospital in 1885). Although I haven't read it properly yet, I think what he says needs to be studied, but some caution is called for.


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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:50 am 
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Or possibly :-

Birkiruð. ‘Clearing in a birch forest’. Old Dan. birki + rød (Icel. ruð)

(Birkerød (Frb.) see link below


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birker%C3%B8d

Mick


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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Re-awakening this old topic, you might be interested in looking at this image

http://wyrearchaeology.org.uk/images/maps/bergerod.jpg

It shows the naval chart for 1689 and the word "Bergerod" jumps out. After looking at some of the other charts I don't think "Bergerod" represents a river but an area of land.

Googling "Bergerod" finds a place in Sweden so perhaps the word is Scandinavian in origin.


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 Post subject: Re: Bergerode
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:51 am 
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I wonder if others know about the existance of the Lancashire Place-Name Society, which is doing good work. The sec is Andrew Walmsley, based in the heritage Dept ( it c overs libraries, museums,archives) at county hall ( - actually in the Archives building I think) I think he could be persuaded to come to talk to our group.


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