The Fylde & Wyre Antiquarian

Very impressive - I must have a walk over and see what`s on the ground.

Just another couple of points. The local pronunciation is Bow grave, not bow greeve, and the older OS maps spell it as BOWGRAVE. I assume this indicates a significant grave as the source of the name and not a wood or copse?

Phil, 'grave' in a place name usually (but not always) comes from 'grafe' or 'graefe' which means copse. Local topography is important too. Without a version of the name from say 12century we can only guess. If it's relatively recent within last 3 - 400 years then spelling is largely irrelevant. That aside it could still be a grave.

Sorry Phil, should also say vis a vis pronunciation 'Gravesend' means at end of the copse. But like Brian says you never know!!

Point taken, gents!

Phil,

Looking at old maps, Bowgrave appears on OS maps from mid 19C (OS 1890 of Garstang South is interesting - see below) but it's not mentioned on the various county maps ranging from Speed's 1610 [which does mention Waddiker, Garstrang (sic) Myrescough (sic) Chase and Greenhalgh Castle], Yates' 1786 [mentions Bonds & Dimples], and Greenwood's and Hennett's 1818 and 1829 [which both mention Dimples]. My conclusion would be that Bowgrave wasn't a significant place or feature till mid 19C. BUT when houses sprang up there perhaps the name was taken from a local field name (there is a Bowgrave Farm to the west) which could be an ancient reference. So maybe the answer lies in tracing old field names. Brain and Michelle are experts on this.

Back to the 1890 Garstang South OS: there's a very interesting almost circular field boundary just to E of road before it bends sharply to the right. Fields are normally rectangular - unless there's something that dictates differently ...

This site has the maps: http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/environment/oldmap/

When I look at Google Map I can`t see the rings illustrated above in that particular loop of the Wyre. However there`s another similar loop 2000 ft to the south with what appear to be two rings in. Could anyone comment?

Hi phil. You wont see it on google maps or the standard default shot on google earth. This is because the satellite they used was not as strong in the frequencys that "see through" foliage etc as the older pics. Also the newer shots from the beginning of this year actually become conventional aerial pictures as you zoom closer. The older shots from 2000 are proper satellite shots, hence the fuzzier nature and different properties, possibly in the infra red or ultra violet bands. If you go to google earth and select the historical image setting from veiw or click the clock icon above it will give you the older shots on a time slider. Each bar on the slider indicates cronological updates in the picture range. If you switch between these on one site, different features show up depending on the type of camera used. Another interesting side effect is the different times of the year the pictures where taken effect plant cover, moisture content of the ground and light direction again showing different features at different times of the year. Another method I use which is very effective is to take the high resolution commercial shots and filter then through different frequencys of colour etc. This makes somtimes invisible features suddenly jump out at you as the invisible frequencys are forced to visible ones. Some of the pictures I post are in weird colours because of this. Some pictures I have to have 2 or 3 different frequencys overlaid to get the full picture of what is there. I tend to do this with 2 or 3 shots of the same thing from different times as well. Some of my pictures have upto 8 layers superimposed onto one picture. Its time consuming but gives great results. I have also mapped some good acute angle 3d landscapes with google earth. You can eccentuate the topography and make the angle more acute to the ground then do a 3d fly round so you get a great look at the context of the site in the landscape and it shows the lumps and bumps better. Just open the side bar and select the "terrain" button. I have added a few variations of the ring, you can see its surrounded by other rings and features. I' am dying to get down there and have a proper look and take some pics.

After having a bit of a dig in Hewitsons Northward. I found this mention of Bowgreave. It was originally BAUgrave then Bowgrave and only recently Bowgreave.

few more psychedelic pics you can see on some pics the rings are invisible but other features suddenly appear.

Last few

Definitely something going on in the pics.

Going back to Bowgreave - literally in this instance - I drove through it on my way to work in Lancaster and the circular feature I mentioned is buried under Garstang High school and housing.

But interestingly I noticed the bit of the A6 that runs into Lancaster is Greaves Road and a row of terraced houses bear a plaque 'Vine Yards Greaves Terrace' . (I might have the terrace bit wrong). The difference in Old English between grafa/graef (grove) and grafa/graefe (pit, trench, grave) is one of pronunciation (can't show the symbols here). The vowels in the former are long and in the latter short. But of course we know that 'bath' is pronounced differently with a long 'a' in the south with no difference in meaning and it's likely that different Old English groups , mixed with Norse etc would speak a variety of dialects so even pronunciation is a guess.

Thanks, Mark - all is not what it seems!
Dave - I worked out that the circular feature is part of the garden of the Elmhurst flats immediately next to the school and that part of the border ring is still there in the form of bushes/trees.

My wife teaches at Garstang high school (Where I went to school as a kid) and Elmhurst was my maths dept back then. It has some interesting garden features. The kitchen garden was still used for school dinners back then. Its been sold off by the school now for flats but the grounds are still linked and I' am sure no one will mind me snooping if my wife clears it. I also on duty in Garstang Police station most weeks so I could do a quick scout with my camera in the garden at Elmhurst this week with my camera. Dave does the name "Bruna" lane have any significance ?