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Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:02 pm
First of all could I say what a good read this forum is, and secondly could any of you advise a complete novice as to how I go about obtaining information about Daggers Hall that once stood at the end of daggers hall lane in Marton
Many thanks Rob
Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:25 pm
I have to 'fess up' here and say that me and Michelle don't know an awful lot about Dagger's Hall. We do know that in the 1866 Directory it was recorded as a farm owned by Elizabeth Royle, and on the 1847 O.S. map it's recorded not as Dagger's Hall, but Dagger's Hole.
Whether the hall was ever owned by any members of the Dagger family, we're not quite sure. (It seems highly likely, though.)
One possible origin of the name Dagger is as the maker of arrow heads (the surname Fletcher, of course, being the person who stuck the feathers in).
Members of the Dagger family (and I'm assuming from your forum name that you happen to be one of them) appear all over the Blackpool area, as you're probably already aware. In Kathleen Eyre's 'Seven Golden Miles' she quotes from a Mr. C. Arthur, who wrote a book entitled 'The History of the Fylde Waterworks 1861 -1911':
One interesting speculation regarding 'Daggers Hole' and its etymology, assuming the initial 'D' to have originally been followed by an apostrophe (making it a family name similar to D'arcy etc) this would lead us to the interpretation: 'Of the Aggers Hole'. In Stalmime, according to the Cockersand Chartulary, there once stood a boundary stone known as the Arghole Stone (otherwise translated as the 'wretched stone in the hollow'). Arghole was, apparently, a district in that neighbourhood in its own right, so it might be possible that the original owners of Dagger's Hole originated from Stalmine.
"Old Billy Dagger, a gardener at Raikes' Hall, used to live in a farmhouse (on Raikes' Hill, corner of Church Street and Park Road)...and there was a pump not far away from which Dagger used to sell water at one shilling six pence a barrel and he made scores of pounds out of it."
Then again they might not have...just a bit of speculation.
As far as obtaining better information that that goes (which shouldn't be too difficult), working on the assumption that nobody else on the forum knows anything about the place (which they might with a bit of luck) then probably your best bet would be the Preston Records Office.
Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:16 am
Just to add to the uncertainty about Daggers Hall, on the Layton Hawes Enclosure Award of 1769 what is now Watson’s Road is referred to as “Daggers hole lane.” It also appears on the Enclosure map as “Daggers Hole Lane in the township of Great Layton.” It was then a new road to be laid out as part of the Award and formed the division between land to the north allocated to Layton landowners and land to the south allocated to Bispham.
The present Daggers Hall Lane, which runs off the appropriately named Hawes Side Lane a little to the north, is not shown on the map, being outside the Hawes. However, I think it would have been there at that time and both it and the farm seem to be on Yates’s map of 1786. The Dagger referred to would have probably lived in the vicinity at a much earlier date. Until the latter half of the 19th century the place name is invariably “hole.”
Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:35 am
Thanks for your replies
An arrow head maker (I like that) remember my mum sending off to a newspaper for a family coat of arms and ours coming back French, recall my dad lighting the fire with it the next day, so I recon dad would have liked arrow head maker as well
I also had a G Grandfather Billy (one of eight brothers) who lived for a time in Blowing Sands (what a great name) and by what I have been told, was a bit of a lad, but he moved back to kirkham with his second wife (twenty five years his junior) became a plate layer on the railway and had twenty kids so not only am I aware that Daggers appear all over the fylde, I bet I’m related to most of them.
Apart from the Fylde we only appear in any great numbers in Bath and a small clan in the south west of Scotland, which has got me wondering, why the west coast? …. Probably out of the way of all the fighting.
Daggers Hole! That will teach me to get my hopes up about having a long lost rich relation, why would any one name a hole after them? No seriously I am interested to find out, nothing would surprise me with my lot.
I’m going to visit the Lancashire records office and I will let you know how I get on.
Could any one recommend any books on local history?
Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:47 pm
Off the top of my head, Rob, I could recommend 'Marton Moss and it's Neighbourhood' by Harold Monks and 'Marton 2000: A Pictorial Review' also by Harold Monks, although this time accompanied by Philip Walsh. Neither of them, unfortunately (as far as I can remember...which isn't very far at all really) mention Dagger's Hall/Hole though. There will be others, of course, it's just that those two happen to be on the bookshelf in front of me as I'm typing.
Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:16 pm
A quote from my book: 1931 - Daggers Hall Lane first appeared this year. Daggers Hole Lane (named after James dagger’s farm and the coppice nearby) had been in existence for many years and is now called Watson Road.
I got the info from Harold Monks's various books and pamphlets held at Central Library - hope it helps
Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:54 am
Both “Daggers Hall Lane” and “Daggers Hall” appear on the 1891 25 inch OS map. Around the time of the 1845 6 inch OS map, which shows the farm as “Daggers Hole,” the Royles family and Henry Jolly, who owned the farm, were living there.
As I have shown, the name goes back at least to the late 18th century. So who was “James Dagger” and when was he there?
I don’t think Watson Road really comes into it. It’s not easy to find things in Harold Monk’s books; they could do with good indexes.
Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:15 am
Such varied and interesting information regarding Daggers Hall Lane and Daggers Hall but do you know Daggers Farm? Can anyone clarify whether the actual spelling is Daggers or us it Dagger's? My last name us just Dagger. Does anyone know how it came to have an "s" on the end? Thank you so much.
Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:20 am
By the way just wanted to ad most of my family came from Blackpool and surrounding area. Great great grandfather Richard Dagger great grandfather John born 1870 married 1893 to Ellen Eccleston daughter of William a butcher. Would like to know if these names show up in your family tree if you are or were a Dagger
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