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 Post subject: King's Map
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:00 pm 
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Yesterday I was in the Lancashire Record's Office and, whilst there, I thought that I would have a look at the "King's Map" which has been mentioned several times in forum posts. I have some questions:-

1. Why is is called the "King's Map". There appears to be nothing in the LRO documentation that refers to it by that name.

2. Does anyone know the history of the map? As far as the LRO is concerned it was deposited by W. H. Proctor esq. of Townley Hall in 1952.

3. What do the numbers like 11.4.25 and 13.6.12 on the map represent? I can't see the pattern.

4. The LRO reference for the document is DDX 194/30. There are a number of other maps in the same series showing various Fylde roads but they seem to belong to a later date. There are a couple of these which show the roads from Lea to Poulton-le-Fylde (DDX 194/41) and from Poulton-leFylde to Hambleton (DDX 194/42) which show some very straight sections - Roman??? The bit from DowBridge (nr Kirkham) in an easterly direction looks very suspicious.

Apologies if this has all been discussed before.


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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 9:21 pm 
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Dave,

It was Frank wot told me it was it was called King's map, and I'm not sure where he got the information from. However, I can tell you a bit about King himself. Gregory King, apparently, was born at Litchfield, the son of a surveyor and landscape gardener. At the age of fourteen he became a clerk to Sir William Dugdale, the antiquary and herald. In 1672 he moved to London to work for John Ogilby, surveying and engraving maps. In 1677 King was appointed Rouge Dragon Pursuivant in the College of Arms, became Lancaster Herald in 1688 and finally died in 1712.

King's manuscript "Natural and Political Observations and Conclusions upon the State and Condition of England, 1696" contained estimates of the population and wealth of England at the close of the 17th century, featuring the demographics of the British population at the time regarding age, gender, marital status, number of children, servants etc, and, more importantly, the amount of beer annually consumed.

As for the figures on his maps, I'm assuming that they're distances or something, although to what they relate I couldn't honestly say.

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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:20 am 
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I’ve always heard it referred to as “the Jacobite Road Map,” but I am not sure why it should be called that, either.


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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:18 pm 
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Fyldecoaster,

I've heard it called that as well. I remember reading an article in one of the Over Wyre Journals (can't recall who wrote it now...I'll have to go and look it up) about it being the route that the Jacobites took through the Wyre. It seemed a plausible enough theory, so, possibly, that's where the alternative name for the map originates.

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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Don't you think that there is a conflict between the two suggestions? Gregory King worked, in effect, for the state and so was anti-Jacobite. He also died in 1712. The first Jacobite rebellion was in 1715.


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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:48 pm 
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Dave,

I suspect the map is known as the Jacobite map because of the article in the Over Wyre Journals. King might not have known about the Jacobites (and it's even possible that the Jacobites didn't take King's route at all) but the road layout would have been the same at the time of the revolt, which was why, presumably, it was used for the article. (Actually, the road layout's not that different now to be honest.)

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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:47 pm 
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I think the first Jacobite revolts began as soon as King Billy arrived in 1689, Killiekrankie, in the Scottish Highlands, was the first Jacobite victory which pre-dates the '15 by 25 years. Then we have the various Irish battles, with the siege of Derry also in 1689 and The Boyne in 1690. Jacobite being derived from Jacobus, the latin form for James, James II being the one deposed in 1688/89 by his daughter Mary and er husband William of Orange. I'm sure this doesn't help in understanding why it's known as the Jacobite Road map, but given Gregory Kings dates there's no reason why it couldn't have had some connection with the Jacobites (who were very active in Lancashire).


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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:58 pm 
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I think we have to ask the question "Why would the Jacobites want such a map?" and I'm afraid I can't see an obvious answer - unless they wanted to prepare an escape route. However, if you were trying to escape back to Scotland, would you go via the towns and villages of the Fylde? I think not. Straight up the A6 for me.

Any other guesses?


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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:15 pm 
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Apparently there was a Lancashre Jacobite Plot in the 1692-1694 period. A pamphlet called:- "New Light on the Lancashire Jacobite Plot of 1692-1694" was written by T. C. Porteus and another recently re-published work, "The Jacobite Trials at Manchester 1694" (published in December 2009) also shows Jacobite activity in Lancashire soon after the Glorious Revolution had taken place...lots of disgruntled Lancashire Catholics were active at this time.


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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Location: just outside the fort
Dave,
Gregory King produced these strip maps for a few other parts of the country, I believe. There are about ten of Kings maps in DDX194, the rough 'as surveyed' ones and the drafted ones which I think you were refering to when you mentioned 'very straight sections' DDX194-41 and 42 are these. The rough ones were drawn as he and an assistant walked the route with a horse and one of those wheel things which measure distance. The figures on these are the distance from the start point in miles furlongs and poles, hence the figure of 9:0:10 at Kirkham market square on DDX194-29, (Poulton to Lea) indicates they had measured nine miles, no furlongs and ten poles from Poulton market square. How accurate they are I don't know. He has even given by these figures for the first and last houses on both sides of the road in Kirkham, being on Poulton and Preston streets.
The Jacobite connection could be true as there is a 'straight up the A6' one among them.

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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:20 am 
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I suppose another possibility was that King, acting for the state, had the remit to produce maps that could be used if there was any form of Jacobite rebellion. That way the maps could legitimately be given the alternative name of "Jacobite".


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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:19 pm 
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davidberry wrote:
3. What do the numbers like 11.4.25 and 13.6.12 on the map represent? I can't see the pattern.
.


Took me a little while to figure that out, Dave. Then I realised that the numbers got smaller as the route moved away from Poulton-le-Fylde. The numbers represent the distance to the destination, which is Lancaster. The first number is miles and, on the sections of the map that I have, the second never exceeds 7, so it's furlongs. The last one is the famous old rod, pole or perch because it ranges from 0 to 39 and 40 of them would roll into a furlong.

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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:44 pm 
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I've just remembered that Terry Jones did a TV series about four of Ogilby's maps (as mentioned above, King worked for Ogilby), all in Wales. I've found online versions of those programs.

For some information on why some historians think Ogilby's atlas was created, watch from about 24 minutes onwards of the "Chester to Holyhead" video at http://www.cosmolearning.com/documentar ... nes-768/0/. It is claimed that the atlas was part of a project to replace parliamentary government and establish an absolute catholic monarchy., which would explain the Jacobite connection.

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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Chris,
As King was measuring while he walked, the figures shown will be the distance from the start point, not the distance to the destination. Whatever the maps are called, it is obvious where the start point was by the figures.

For anyone interested in viewing these maps at LRO, Here is the index,

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/A2A/ ... &cid=-1#-1

DDX194 21-36 are the rough maps
DDX194 37-44 are the drafted ones

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 Post subject: Re: King's Map
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:51 pm 
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Frank,

Aye, that dawned on me after I'd posted, but what I wote got the right idea over, so I let it be. Not long ago, it was possible to edit your own postings, but as ever with progress, that good thing seems to a thing of the past.

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