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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:14 pm 
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Location: Preston
I'm pretty convinced that 'Portus Setantiorum' and 'Bergerode' (on Speed's map) are synonymous and both refer to the sheltered natural harbour lying between the present docks area and the ICI site and now 'reclaimed' land (is it a nature reserve?). So I think that, if not natural, any rocky features are likely to be ballast from wrecks. It seems that ballast was often quite regular in size and sometimes shaped - to stop it rolling about in heavy seas and thus destabilising the ship. So much so that there are buildings constructed from them, such as one in Savannah Georgia from them
http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/BS/BS-Sav.html

Given that this low lying coast is open to sudden and disastrous flooding (records between 1550 and 1997) would it be likely that there would be any settlement or important harbour further out - and even more low lying - in the bay? Not convinced that rising sea level can be blamed for disappearance - I think it's still there. Bear in mind that divers in previous years have also discovered masonry remains of Atlantis (at various locations), lost American civilisations etc.

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 Post subject: Portus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Although having said that, this is a photo of a beach-side cafe at Formby Point that fell into the sea in 1961.


Image

This beach and it's famous fossil footprints will is slowly disappearing although when the tide's out you'd find it hard to believe.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Location: Fleetwood
Quote:
...the sheltered natural harbour lying between the present docks area and the ICI site and now 'reclaimed' land (is it a nature reserve?).


Fleetwood Tip and the Cala Gran Caravan Park mainly...although Fleetwood Marsh Picnic Area and the Sewerage Works lies somewhere in the middle of them. (Not a good place for a picnic really when the wind's in the wrong direction -- i.e. A northwesterly, which is the prevailing wind round these parts so it wasn't, perhaps, the greatest planning decision for the picnic area on reflection.)

You never know, we might find something under Bourne Hill this summer to back this theory up. The skeleton of a Romano/British custom's officer complete with peaked cap and rubber glove would suffice.

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 Post subject: Re: Portus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:47 pm 
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Location: Preston
DaveH wrote:
This beach and it's famous fossil footprints will is slowly disappearing although when the tide's out you'd find it hard to believe.


Aaaargh! People may know I'm a bit of a pedant when it comes to grammar and I've just spotted an errant apostrophe in my post and a redundant 'will'. So, just in case Lynne Truss (Eats, Shoots & Leaves) is a subscriber to this site, I do know it's 'its' and not 'it's'.

If anyone is confused and bovvered, I'd be happy to explain.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Dave as an peddant for perfec't grammor miself I, can understand you're concern i always. use spel and grammer checker on mie own stuff but; unfortunately at the moment its permenantly sett too american jive About the only thing it duz manidge two accomplish (is too prevnt me from leaving any dangling perposition's in.

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http://www.wyrearchaeology.blogspot.com


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:17 am 
I'm sure I saw a pedant lurking around my local car park!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Nick,

It wasn't the one that used to hang round the Mayor's neck, was it, because I think it snapped and she lost it.

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http://www.wyrearchaeology.blogspot.com


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:38 pm 
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Right here we go been"trawling" round for information the ship is the "Stella Marie" home port Torshaven, Faroe Isles sunk 1941 so i now believe my old departed Grandfather was correct ! Photos soon as tides right.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Looking forward to them, Steve. Make sure you take a rucksack with you, just in case you find any bits of broken pot, ancient coins, querns, etc whilst you're out there.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:31 pm 
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Steve,
I managed at last to get hold of an old Admiralty chart, and fairly interesting it is, in as much that it doesn't show the two 'wrecks' we are discussing, though there's quite a bit of other stuff, no Pennistone rock or anything off Cleveleys. What strikes me is that the shallow area extends quite a way out at the north end of the Fylde but is narrower off Blackpool. Read into that what you want.

Image

Image

Just noticed on the title picture it shows the old aerial gunnery target on Pilling sands, that takes me back.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:04 pm 
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Frank,

It shows the old rifle butts at Rossall Point as well...Wilfred Owen's old stomping ground.

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 Post subject: Portus Setantiorum
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:45 pm 
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Aren't those posts at the start of the thread the remants of the navigation light erected by Lancaster Port Authority in the 1700s? Thats the story I have heard


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Welcome, Fleetwood Web, I'll bet Brian will know who you are. Tell us more about this navigation light from so long ago, it sounds interesting. I'm sure from all the posts on this topic you can see the consensus is a wreck, but anything new is welcome. The wreck theory is sound, with the piles of ballast etc, but, why two piles for one ship, or is there two? The protruding posts do look the same on both parts on the blown up shots, but no wreck is marked on the admiralty chart. Have you any more info?
By the way your site is good, I liked the part about the lighthouses, very clever. Shame the Wyre Light is not being looked after as befits its history.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:55 am 
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Frank,

There's a distinct possibility that I do know 'Fleetwood Web' (unless, of course, he/she doesn't actually live in Fleetwood...or at least on the peninsula) although if I do know him/her, then he/she isn't letting onto me who they are. (Can't say as I blame them.)

It's an excellent website though. Been to it several times in the past. (Good place for plagiarising photographs and information about the old homestead.)

Welcome aboard Fleetwood Web. Like Frank says, we could do with a bit more info if possible about the navigation light. (My brain's still fogged up at this of the morning.)

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http://www.wyrearchaeology.blogspot.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Location: Fleetwood
wyrearchaeology wrote:
Frank,

There's a distinct possibility that I do know 'Fleetwood Web' (unless, of course, he/she doesn't actually live in Fleetwood...or at least on the peninsula) although if I do know him/her, then he/she isn't letting onto me who they are. (Can't say as I blame them.)

It's an excellent website though. Been to it several times in the past. (Good place for plagiarising photographs and information about the old homestead.)

Welcome aboard Fleetwood Web. Like Frank says, we could do with a bit more info if possible about the navigation light. (My brain's still fogged up at this of the morning.)


I do live in Fleetwood, and I bet you don't know who I am ... A few people do know its me behind the website though.

If you want to have a guess at my identity, send me a PM. Lifetime's supply of sea air to the winner ...

"Good place for plagiarising photographs" ... That's a bit of a sore point with me since I've had to defend the (top) photo of the Lower Lighthouse - www.enation.co.uk/fleetwoodlighthouses.htm - three times; twice against individuals and once against an organisation that helped themselves to the photo and put it on their website/printed material and never asked permission. I won't put it in print, but I'll tell all face-to-face.

Any how, the stumps.

The last wreck trek I went on (2006 I'm ashamed to say), I went out to King Scar and onto the stumps. The previous treks I'd been on I'd never got near enough and was always curious as to what they are/where. In 2006 they were almost at the edge of the water so was slightly wary about going to near, but nonetheless they are quite visible from King Scar, though they are not overly high (about a metre) so when at them from King Scar they appear to be nothing of major significance- the stones around them give the impression that its just a pile of stones or rubble, etc.

But if you look at the newspaper clipping at the top of the thread and FrankJSmith's aerial photos you can see that they are both of uniform shape and size, and Frank's photos clearly show two uniform piles of stones, rubble, etc. I would argue that these are foundations for the Rossall Point Light erected by the Port of Lancaster Commissions. The guide on the last wreck trek claimed that this was the site, though he may have been repeating an old wives/sailor's tale.

However, two bokos by Catherine Rothwell have pictures of the Light. The First ("Fleetwood in Old Picture Postcards - 1982) - which I think is available in Fleetwood Central Library - shows a photo of the Light and one the left of the Light there are supporting posts which look like the stumps. She says "All that remains now is a circle of barnacle covered stumps like rotting teeth, which the sea reveals at every ebbing tide".

The second of her books "Fleetwood in Old Photographs" (1994) says "the circular base can still be found covered with barnacles at Rossall Point". This book is interesting because it contains a reproduction of Yate's Map of 1786 which shows a cone shape at Rossall Point, which is, I believe the Rossall Point light (see attached image for the map).

Image


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