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 Post subject: Portus Setantiorum
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Location: rossall beach cleveleys uk
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From a newspaper scrapbook year of print is not with the photo.
Phil.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:53 pm 
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Excellent post, and very thought provoking. It would be interesting to substantiate this with other photos.

Can't wait for Brian to give us his tuppence on the subject!

JOHN :0)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:22 pm
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Location: Fleetwood
Hmm...cheers for the clipping, Phil, although I can't help wondering whether the date on that newspaper was April the first. It seems a bit odd that, with the number of expeditions by various historical and antiquarian groups to Kings Scar over the last couple of centuries, nobody else has ever spotted them. And, to be honest, they don't look particularly Roman really. Roman columns tended to be built in sections...not something you'd expect to still be upright after two millenia under the bay. More like part of a wrecked ship perhaps? Still...you never know.

Interesting to see the old cooling towers in the background. Long since gone now, of course. My dad used to navigate down the channel in his boat using them. Presumably he couldn't be bothered using the lighthouses.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:03 pm
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Location: thornton
hi all thinking about what my mate peter said regarding the road/causeway . would it be possible for somebody to build a road/causeway with the tide going in out etc ? baring in mind the tide that comes up the wyre and the fact that its supposed to be one of the strongest tides of any around the uk . hope i explained that properly i.e lay a few bricks tide comes in washes it all away ? is it possible to lay a few bricks tide comes in and doesnt wash it all away ? how does that work ? peter also said that when he was out by the road/causeway you couldnt see fleetwood coz of this huge sandbank . hope that makes sense . cheers regards andy ps sorry for asking whats probably a stupid question told you i was a historical dunce !!!!!!!!! :oops:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Andy,

If memory serves the road across Pilling Marsh used to flood twice a day until they put up the new sea defences. All the sheep used to stand on top of the mounds by the roadside and act as though they'd been shipwrecked. That being the case (which it might not be, because I might have got it wrong -- my memory's a bit crud at the best of times) then, presumably, roads/causeways could be built regardless of the ebb and flow.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:01 am 
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Don't know if it helps but I found an Icelandic trawler wrecked off Wyre Light on 30th October 1940 if that gives credence to the picture?
http://www.marine-heritage.connectfree. ... ecks4.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:15 am 
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Jayne,

There are actually tons of shipwrecks out in the Bay, as the annual Fleetwood Wreck Walk testifies. (And there were you thinking that was just the yearly parade of old fogies like me.)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:20 am 
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LOL
After reading through the 3 pages of lists of the ruined ships (Morecombe Bay has been managing to wreck ships since 1642, impressive!) I think I'd have difficulty spotting you amidst them all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:06 am 
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Jayne,

I'm the old, crusty one that all the birds avoid. (Singing: If you were the only gull in the world, and I was the only buoy...)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:57 am 
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*groan*
That's so old it's been declared a National Treasure, Brian!


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 Post subject: Portus Setantiorum
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:42 am 
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Location: just outside the fort
Phil,
Funny you should post that Photo. Remember the round features I saw on North Wharfe by King Scar las year and posted them on the 'aerial photos of the beach' topic, Brian commented-
Quote:
They do look interesting, I must admit. There isn't some sort of outlet pipe for something or other out there is there? One that requires round, concrete humps and bumps every so often along it? Possibly extremely symetrical muscle beds...or even very large, very ancient tree trunks? On the other hand they could very well be round platforms of some description. The problem with stuff that's under the sea for most of the time, of course, is that it gets covered in barnacles and muscles and bits of flotsam and it's almost impossible to work out what it is, even right up close.

I thought if they were just piles of stones thrown together by the currents they would have gone now, so we had a look on Tuesday evening, one of the lowest tides of the year-

Image

Image

Image

Image

Discuss!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:18 am 
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Location: Fleetwood
Frank,

Well, they certainly look like the same 'pillars'. I wonder what the other bits lying flat to the sand are. It's either some sort of metal construction -- an old platform perhaps -- or the remains of a shipwreck by the looks of things.

Somebody out there must know what these things are. There's a perfectly sound and reasonable explanation (one that probably doesn't involve missing Roman ports), I'm sure.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Location: Bispham
wyrearchaeology wrote:
Well, they certainly look like the same 'pillars'. I wonder what the other bits lying flat to the sand are. It's either some sort of metal construction -- an old platform perhaps -- or the remains of a shipwreck by the looks of things.


If it is a wreck, could all that rock-like material be ballast? I watched a repeated Timeteam recently and in that they were investigating a site where shipbuilding had taken place in Tudor times. One of the trenches they dug turned out to be a ship (albeit not a very big one), and the finds included quite a lot of brick, which the subject-matter expert was certain would have been ballast.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:35 pm 
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Chris,

That makes sense to me. I could do with talking to somebody who does the wreck walk every year. If it was a wreck (and there's been enough of them on King's Scar) then somebody somewhere will probably know which one it is.

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http://www.wyrearchaeology.blogspot.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:27 pm 
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On the other "island" there seems to be a smaller pair of columns, could there have been a raised causeway or bridge of some description?
Can't make out what material the "pillars" are made of - is it timber, stone or brick?
I was also thinking of those ship building dry docks, after Chris' comment, with those pillar-like spines that hold ships in place whilst being built.


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