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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:16 am 
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Location: Preston
I saw an article maybe on Lancs CC site about an assessment of glacial gravel deposits along the terraces of the Ribble which indicated that the Ribble obviously had been initially much wider (as ice cap meltwater drained) and reduced in stages over millennia and that ther ehad been 3 - I think - 'marine incursions' of the Fylde coast. So this shows that sea levels do rise and fall over time. Other things happen too.

E. G. The salt marshes around Silverdale where we used to take our kids about 11 years ago have been washed away. We thought at first this was due to severe storms a few years a geological report says it's because the River Kent started around 1985 to change the flow of its main channel into the bay southwards which in turn affected tidal flow and resulted in the marshes diappearing. I think they've actually moved up the coast but it's also revealed a fossil coral reef.


was like this but about 2 feet deep and enough cover to graze cattle:

Image

now like this:

Image

but revealed coral reef. This is about 12- 14 inches across :

Image

any idea what this is - about 6 inches long
Image

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:09 pm 
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That is a remarkable change for the river, and in such a short time period, too!
Any particular reason given for the river to change its flow in 1985?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:16 pm 
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Is that a fossil? It's a mighty impressive one if it is...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:52 pm 
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Jayne,

The article (www.mangeolassoc.org.uk/arnside.htm) says: Since 1985, the River Kent’s track into Morecambe Bay has altered until now it follows the Arnside/Silverdale side of the estuary, eroding the salt marsh and, fortunately for us, exposing wonderful fossiliferous limestones.

The short answer to 'why' is 'dunno'. I've read that water resource management can alter flow but maybe higher tides / storms build up sand banks and the river just alters to find an easier route.

I think we noticed the reduction of the marshes about 5 years ago (have to think in terms of how old the kids were) but these photos were taken over last 2 weeks and 99% has gone - possibly shifted along the coast. If you have Google Earth 'fly' to Silverdale these pics were taken on the coast of Morecambe Bay due west of Silverdale. The Kent enters the bay north of Arnside further up round the headland. You can see the channel curving south round the headland. Previously the main flow was more north-west along the Grange over Sands coast.

On 'Earth ' you can see the expanse of salt marsh and there are some photos of this area before erosion.

Brian,
I think the fossil is a Caninophyllum patulum...maybe.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:02 pm 
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hi all regarding wether the sea used to be further out or not , how well documented is singleton thorpe ? cause surely if were 100% sure that it was out there then doesnt that answer the question ? or is singleton thorpe just a legend from 500 years ago ? or as usual am i just simplifing things into andys world !!! cheers regards andy


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Andy,

Singleton Thorpe is another of those massively disputed matters. Some evidence of buildings was discovered off Cleveleys around the turn of the 19th century (it might just have been an old farm though)roughly quarter of a mile out (the excavators' best guess...no GPS back then unfortunately), but whether it was Singleton Thorpe or not is open to question. Most historians can't even agree as to whether Singleton Thorpe stood off Bispham, Norbreck or Rossall...quite a stretch of coastline to go at on the whole.

The other thing about Singleton Thorpe was that it was allegedly destroyed by a sudden storm (by the sounds of it, more likely a tsunami) rather than gradual erosion. Like I say, some land has obviously gone missing from our coastline over the centuries. The question is how much and when?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:40 pm 
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That article was a good read, thanks for the link, Dave :)
The offspring is mighty impressed with the fossil, agrees with your consensus.

Has there not been a collaborative study done of the entire (main) coastline around the UK or major changes over any time period?
Would be interesting to go through the data, especially with records from centuries ago, to compare the tidal patterns and possibly previous land exposure.
Could help predict general direction of future water currents/alteration of riverbeds (excepting major events like flash flooding/tsunamis, of course) to pinpoint location and urgency of archaeology/salvage digs.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 9:17 am 
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Jayne,
There has been a study of the coast in the north west, quoted in a few articles and books I have seen. Here's how it's noted in the bibliography of 'Roman Forts in the Fylde, by Buxton and Howard-Davis'

Tooley, M, 1980 Theories of Coastal Changes in North-West England, in (ed) F H Thompson, Archaeology and Coastal Change, soc Antiq London Occ Pap, n ser, 1, 74-86

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:09 pm 
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The Wyre Borough Council site:

http://www.wyrebc.gov.uk/Page.aspx?PvnI ... 24-132-177

has some info on flood defences and 'background reading' says:

Flooding Incidents
A survey of records held by Wyre Borough Council and by Fleetwood library shows that the Borough has suffered a number of flooding events as detailed below.

Flooding Incidents Year Date Type Notes
1555 Tidal flooding Destruction of Singleton Thorpe village (now 1 mile seaward of Cleveleys)
(my emphasis)
1720 18/19 Dec Tidal flooding Large areas of coast swamped by the sea
1771 Tidal flooding Large areas of coast swamped by the sea
1796 Tidal flooding Large areas of coast swamped by the sea
1833 30 Dec Tidal flooding Large areas of coast swamped by the sea. New coast protection works built by Sir Peter Hesketh
1863 Tidal flooding Loss of above defences during tidal flood
1896 Tidal flooding
1927 28/29 Oct Tidal overtopping Areas of Fleetwood flooded to a depth of 7ft. Six lives lost
1954 Breach
1960 Tidal flooding Flooding to Rossall area during gale.
1976 2/3 Jan Tidal overtopping 29 houses flooded to a depth of 6in above floor level
1977 11/12 Nov Tidal overtopping 1900 houses flooded to depths of up to 1m above floor level. Considerable damage to infrastructure. Tide level exceeds 1 in 100 years tide level.
1978 15 Nov
1979 Aug
1980 23,27 Oct, 15/16 Nov River overflowing
1983 31 Jan/1 Feb Tidal overflowing Tidal surge 1.4m
1984 17 Jan
1988 9 Feb
1990 26/27 Feb Tidal overtopping Water level of 6.17m AOD recorded at Fleetwood.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:19 am 
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Could the 1555 tidal wave/tsunami flood have been caused by the large earthquake that originated in Kashmir?
http://cires.colorado.edu/~bilham/Kashmir%202005.htm
This article, although incomplete, paints a clear picture of the significant amount of coastline lost each year around Fleetwood, Blackpool, Bispham, etc.
http://rsh.sagepub.com/cgi/pdf_extract/68/6/617
Far inland looks like a pretty healthy place to live! ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Interesting links Jayne thanks. I'm not sure about connexion with Kashmir - too far away I'd have thought. I did see a TV prog earlier this year or late last in which 2 experts (can't remember in what) showed evidence (boulders thrown up several metres, raised inland shingle banks and historic accounts of great waves) that UK had been hit by a number of tsunamis in history and prehistory.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:25 pm 
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Michelle thinks that Singleton Thorpe might have been destroyed by an underwater landslip off the coast of Ireland. Apparently this has happened a couple of times, the most recent being in the 19th century (I think) although, unfortunately, there are no records going back as far as 1554 to confirm the hypothesis. It sounds reasonable though.

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http://www.wyrearchaeology.blogspot.com


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