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 Post subject: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:28 pm 
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These helmets seem to be quite rare, so 2 from our part of the world is significant. The new one from Cumbria looks to be in really good condition, unlike the Ribchester one, which can be seen in the British Museum and Harris Museum (I'm never sure which is the actual and which is the replica). The Cumbria one has a Phrygian cap, linked to the Mithraic cult. ere's a couple of links to give you more info:-

http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_ ... abcba3540a



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_mysteries



I'm sure we can get a picture of the Ribchester one.


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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:56 am 
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£300,000 quid? Right...where's me shovel?

Incidentally, Terry, the one in the B.M. is the genuine article. The other one's a replica...although I thought it was in Ribchester Museum rather than the Harris...but I could be wrong. (I often am.)

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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Have a look at The Guardian link:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2010/ ... or-cumbria

Did you see the archaeologist being quoted in the last paragraph? A Mr Barford! NO AMATEURS ALLOWED! All I would say is "Have spade (and metal detector), will travel". Have a nice day Mr Barford...our history is all our concerns not just a closed shop of academics.

From the circumstances of the find and its location I doubt the helmet would have seen the light of day without the diligence of the metal detector who found it. There's no evidence the find spot was on the radar of any professional archaeologists, but I'm sure that they will now be able to determine some context for the find. So, would it have been better if the helmet had never been found?

I'm not knocking the professionals at the British Museum or those that administer the Portable Antiquities Scheme, just those archaeologists who are holier than thou and far too precious about their subject.

And just one last point, given the number of finds and sites discovered by Metal Detectorists, I would suggest there aren't enough professionals to go round to investigate all sites to their (ahem) professional standards. Would the Bourne Hill dig have ever got off the ground if left to professionals?


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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:17 am 
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Terry,

In answer to your last question, 'Definitely not!'...although I should add that Bourne Hill was discovered through research rather than metal detecting, but that's beside the point. Either way, like so many sites of archaeological importance across the length and breadth of Blighty, the professionals sucessfully managed to overlook it, and no doubt there'd be a sport's hall up there now if we hadn't stepped in first. (Actually there might well be a sport's hall up there yet...but at least us annoying amateurs will have extracted as much information as we can and added to our local history considerably before that happens.)

I notice that Mr Barford is so concerned about British archaeology that he's fannying around in Poland. In the words of the immortal Charlie Brown: "Another unmarried marriage guidance councellor."

We have Dot Broughton (nee Brun) of the PAS coming to the society to give us a talk this evening, and I suspect her views on the subject will vary greatly from those of Mr Barford.

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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:20 pm 
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brian , is fannying ? an archaeoogical term that we hav`nt heard of !!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:24 pm 
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archaeoogical !!! oops !!!


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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:06 am 
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Er...I'll leave Mr. Hampson to put forward the etymology on that one...

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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:38 pm 
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[quote="wyrearchaeology"]Er...I'll leave Mr. Hampson to put forward the etymology on that one...


of which one - 'archaeoogical' or 'fannying'?

My concise etymological dictionary doesn't even mention 'fanny' and for various reasons I've resisted googling the word. But we all know the well used phrase 'to a**se about' and to USA English speakers the words '***', 'butt' and 'fanny' are pretty interchangeable I think. We and the Americans might also have said in the past 'bum around'. In German the word 'bummeln' means to loiter, waste one's time, loaf about, loiter, dawdle, be negligent etc. So I wonder if we originally got 'bum around' from that (but not from ME bom = buttocks) then replaced the 'bum' with 'a**se' which in turn got replaced by 'fanny'?
Enough!

BTW Bot Boughton brought to the meeting a German book about 'Paraderustungen' i.e. Roman Parade paraphernalia which included in the photos a fair number of Parade Helmets from across the Empire including the Ribchester example and quite a lot of parade horse-armour. So maybe they're not especially rare but there are now only 3 from GB - 2 from Lancashire/ Cumbria and 1 from Scotland. This latest find does seem to be in outstanding condition compared to those in the book.
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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:13 pm 
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The Fylde & Wyre Etymologicarians! Did Dot mention about a Finds Day? As I'm well out of the loop these days.


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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:09 pm 
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I'm not sure what this has to do with cavalry helmets but, to sound a little like Stephen Fry, in this country "fanny" refers to a female "front bottom" whereas in America it is the "back bottom". So to "sit down on your fanny" would be slightly more difficult in this country.

Wandering further away from the original thread title, I was amused at the meeting last night to hear Dot Boughton trying to give out her email address as dot dot boughton.....


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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:24 am 
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Terry,

Dot did mention the finds day, but I've forgotten what she said about it now. I think one's being arranged, but I'll have to wait for the minutes to doublecheck.

Dave and Dave,

I suspect the modern term 'fannying around' has little to do with either American or British fannies (the title of the novel 'Fanny by Gaslight' always amused me as a kid) and more of a corruption/coloquialism of 'faffing around'...possibly.

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http://www.wyrearchaeology.blogspot.com


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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:05 pm 
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Here's a picture of the Cumbrian one.


Attachments:
cavweb.jpg
cavweb.jpg [ 21.48 KiB | Viewed 3756 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Cheers for that Terry. I believe it's completely unique in design, which, presumably, is why they're asking so much for it.

Incidentally, just for comparitive purposes, here's the Ribchester helmet:


Attachments:
ribchester-helmet.jpg
ribchester-helmet.jpg [ 36.86 KiB | Viewed 3739 times ]

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http://www.wyrearchaeology.blogspot.com
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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:09 pm 
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The cumbrian mask looks more like one of the Marx brothers than a Roman cavalryman to me!

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 Post subject: Re: ROMAN CEREMONIAL CAVALRY HELMETS
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:58 am 
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Frank,

It's the Chico hat that does it.

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http://www.wyrearchaeology.blogspot.com


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